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This hasn't had a posting since almost a year ago and I'm assuming that this post is probably as close to dead as it'll get. But, I'll chip in my two cents anyway. The City of Portland, Oregon has gone beyond stupid in the last few years and dropped some speed limits from 55 to 50. It is so aggrivating but rather comical because nobody obeys them and the police don't write citations for going 55 or even close to 65 in these zones. Now here's where it gets really strange and I mean REALLY weird. Evidently, effective January 1st, 2004, all speed limits in the State of Oregon that are outside of urban areas and off of the interstate highway system are what is called 'prima facie'. Prima facie is defined as 'legal to exceed if safe'. So, technically, one could travel 90 in a 55 if he/she so desired and found it safe. I found this on another post here regarding the unique Oregon speed limit signs (ours just say SPEED, not SPEED LIMIT). This sounds kind of fishy to me because I tore the driver's manual apart (literally) and found no supporting evidence that this could be true. However, if it is true, it means that the law is no longer the law. If it's true, can I legally roll through a stop sign or a red light? This has so many legal implications that it's scary. And if someone tried to contest an accident under the Prima Facie speed rules in court, there would be enough paperwork to hide Al Sharpton's hair or Vera Katz's ego. I'd like to bring this post back to life. Any responses would be appreciated.
I too would like information on this notion of prima facie versus absolute speed limits. At a recent town meeting, a councilman stated that he thought that it might be legal for a motorist, in the State of New Jersey, to exceed any posted speed limit if "safe to do so" up to 55 mph, including residential 25 mph streets. If this were true, wouldn't everybody challenge every speeding ticket: "Your honor, I admit I was going 55 in a 25 zone, but it was safe at the time." I've been trying to research if New Jersey has absolute speed limits to no avail.
I believe only three states are prima facie texas rhode island and oregon!
Ohio is a Prima Facie speed limit state, too. ORC 4511.21 (B) It is
prima-facie lawful, in the absence of a lower limit declared pursuant to this
section by the director of transportation or local authorities, for the
operator of a motor vehicle, trackless trolley, or streetcar to operate the
same at a speed not exceeding the following: ...
The last I heard and saw , Arizona is close to passing legislation that would allow certain portions of state highways to post 80 m.p.h. limits. In Tucson we are currently averaging about $ 1.82 for regular.
As one who investigates and writes recommendations for speed limit ordinances, Mr. Fields' definition of "prima facie" as "legal to exceed if safe" sounds really weird. I would like to see the legal reference that has that definition. In my dictionary the term means "first face", directly from the Latin, and also "Before closer inspection". That can mean, in speed limit practice, that if you do not see a SPEED LIMIT sign (or in Oregon, apparently, a SPEED sign), then the limit is what the state has sdtermined by a prima facie statute. I understand that in one or more wide open midwestern states (MN?) there is no maximum limit. In such a case I would say that state's prima facie limit is unlimited. In my state, the prima facie speed limit is the maximum legal speed for all road or road sections that are not ordinanced and posted for a different speed. Outside of municipal boundaries that speed is 55 mph. Inside municipal boundaries it is 35 mph. Such a prima facie law allows a large part of the road system not to need any signs, or to allow the use of minimal signing. If the state or a municipality want a different speed limit on a section of road, the governing board must enact an ordinance for same. So I drive to work first at 25 mph on a city street, then at 40 mph on a 5-lane state arterial, then at 55 mph on a 4-to-5-lane median-divided arterial, than at 70 mph on the Interstate. Each segment has a separate ordinance except for the 55-mph segment as 55 is the prima facie limit. I hope I've clarified this for some readers.-BH
There is no such ocncept as prima facie speed limits in NJ. Speed limits are strictly regulated by Title 39, the state law governing all motor vehicle regulations. If a street has a speed limit sign, that is the limit! If not posted, the speed limit in residential areas is 25 mph and in rural areas 50 mph. The entire concept of allowing individual motorists to set their own speed "limits" is absurd. This sounds like an "urban legend" with no basis in fact.
Ken: I agree that Mr. Fields' definition of "prima facie speeds" as "legal to exceed if safe" is totally without merit, in my opinion. A citation by him of any related definitive statute would be useful. But I suggest that NJ does have "prima facie" speed limits, as the term is normally applied, even if the TERM as such may not be in use in NJ. When you state that the unposted speed limit in "residential" areas is 25 and that in "rural" areas is 50, then those ARE the "prima facie" speed limits for those areas respectively. The term refers to the speed that exists by statute when no signs are present. I do have to wonder though what the legal limit is in non-rural "commercial" or "institutional" areas, or do they all get posted on a case-by-case basis? Also, I assume there must be hard and fast definitions as to what constitutes a legal "residential" area for such purposes. My state abolished the "prima facie" 25-mph limit in "residential" areas (unless posted otherwise) in the 1960's because, I believe, that it was so nebulous and hard to define. As stated in my 3/18 posting, now it is 35 inside municipalities and 55 outside. I investigate speed limit change requests for a 4500-mile mostly rural road system and I get calls from "residential" area residents on rural roads wanting their speed limit reduced from the statutory 55 to 35 or less just because they live on the road. We do the required studies and usually find the 85th percentile speeds are not below 55, ergo, the limit does not get lowered, unless crash histories or other mitigating factors arise.
I understand that in order for a state to receive Federal Matching Highway Funds they must design their speed limits in accordance with the MUTCD. So far Texas is accepting the money but not complying with this requirement. Interested in factual information concerning Texas speed limits.
Not that it is important, but I disagree with your definition of New Jersey's 25 and 50 speed limits as "prima facia." The dictionary definition would tend to support a "prima facia" speed as, say, the 85 perdcentile, that which is evident on the road. The NJ speed limits are always referred to as Statutory. The 25 mph speed can almost never be "observed" on any street, since it is unreasiltically and unreasonably low. NJ also has a statutory 35 mph for residential areas, but it must be poseted as such...the 25 does not need signs. As far as defining them, a 25 mph speed is for areas where one-half of the road frontage is occupied by residential or commercial buildings. Talk about difficult to identify! In reality, the 25 is considered applicable to all areas with reasonable development. I underseant that there have been some court cases, but reasonable people never pay attention to judges.
Could someone tell me what the law is in Massachusetts regarding the following: on a town road there is a sign saying thickly settled 30 MPH. About a mile later there are two signs togehter indicating a curve in the road and a speed limit of 25MPH. Here's my question. Is the speed limit 25MPH for the road until a new speed limit sign is posted (there isn't another one until after the road ends) or is the speed limit just 25mph around the curve? Thanks for your help
I'm not sure about Massachusetts, but the appropriate way of defining a safe speed through a curve is to use a Curve (or Turn) sign with a black-on-yellow Advisory Speed plate. It he curve you mention contains a standard Speed Limit sign, that would normally be the speed limit for the next section of road until another sign. By the way, from a practical standpoint, it is meaningless to reduce speed by 5 mph for a curve.
Trying again...The advisory speed plaque, W13-1, is black on yellow. This sign (and all others) can be viewed through this website.
Is the speed sign at the curve a yellow panel under the curve sign, or a black and white sign?
from www.leg.state.or.us/ors/811.html:
811.105 Speeds that are evidence of basic rule violation. (1) Any speed in
excess of a designated speed posted by authority granted under ORS 810.180 is
prima facie evidence of violation of the basic speed rule under ORS 811.100.
(2) If no designated speed is posted by authority granted under ORS
810.180, any speed in excess of one of the following speeds is prima facie
evidence of violation of the basic speed rule:
(a) Fifteen miles per hour when driving on an alley.
(b) Twenty miles per hour in a business district.
(c) Twenty-five miles per hour in any public park.
(d) Twenty-five miles per hour on a highway in a residence district if:
(A) The residence district is not located within a city; and
(B) The highway is neither an arterial nor a collector highway.
(e) Fifty-five miles per hour in locations not otherwise described in
this section. [1983 c.338 §564; 1985 c.16 §286; 1987 c.887 §10; 1989 c.592 §5;
1995 c.558 §3; 1997 c.404 §5; 1997 c.438 §3; 2003 c.397 §6; 2003 c.819 §6]
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This page last updated on 02/09/2010 04:09:56 PM |
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